Transcript: Mayor de Blasio Participates in Armchair Discussion with Symone Sanders at the John F. Kennedy Jr. Forum

February 15, 2019

Director Mark Gearan, Harvard Institute of Politics: Thank you. Thank you so much. Good evening and welcome. Welcome to the JFK Jr. Forum, and thank you for the introductions. We warmly welcome all of you here. We are thrilled to have the mayor of the nation's largest city, Bill de Blasio here. He brings many things to this forum that’s housed many of his predecessors, and important mayors, and heads of states that have visited the Forum. Mayor de Blasio brings many things to our conversation today. First, he's a graduate of Cambridge Rindge and Latin High School right here – and he's a Red Sox fan and a Patriots fan. But he's also the 109th Mayor of New York City who has a history of public service in the Housing and Urban Development Department, in the New York City Council, and, of course, in his service as the Mayor of New York City. 

So, there's plenty to talk about today, as always. And we have invited a former IOP fellow, Symone Sanders, who is a CNN commentator and strategist to be in conversation with the Mayor. 

So. join me in welcoming Mayor de Blasio and Symone Sanders.

[Applause]

Symone Sanders: Hello. Hello. Y’all keep that round of applause going for Mayor de Blasio.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Thank you.

Sanders: Let me set my express [inaudible] a little quiet today. Well, Mayor, thank you. 

Mayor: Thank you, Symone.

Sanders: Thank you for having me. Thank you for having us here at Harvard. It's always great to be back at the Institute of Politics. I'm actually a fellow this semester at USC Center for the Political Future, but I do miss you all on a regular basis. Don't tell Bob Shrum. But I'm excited we have Mayor de Blasio here today, so we're going to have a really robust conversation – I love the Mayor, he’s one of my favorites – and then we're also going to take some questions later. So think about your questions, and we are taking questions, ladies and gentlemen, not soliloquies.

Questions, not –

Audience: Soliloquies. 

Sanders: I teach a class on Mondays, okay?

[Laughter]

All right. So, Mayor de Blasio, I have to go with – I have to start off talking about Amazon. The news about Amazon broke today. I just want to read, you know, folks, your statement. The statement from Mayor de Blasio on Amazon headquarters – HQ2 – the Mayor says, you have to be tough to make it in New York City. We gave Amazon the opportunity to be a good neighbor and do business in the greatest city in the world. Instead of working with the community, Amazon threw away that opportunity. We have the best talent in the world and every day we are growing a stronger and fairer economy for everyone. If Amazon can recognize what that's worth, its competitors as will. 

So, talk to us a little bit about this statement, but also some of the – I mean there were – there were very – there were critics in the community that the Amazon HQ was planning to be in that they weren't necessarily excited about Amazon being there. So talk to us a little bit about that.

Mayor: Yeah, and that's democracy and that's okay – and this is why this whole thing is so strange and so distressing to me. But before we talk about Amazon, Happy Valentine's Day.

[Laughter]

They didn't send me a Valentine, but I can send you a Valentine. 

[Laughter]

Happy Valentine's Day, Symone.

Sanders: Thank you, and did you bring me a gift?

Mayor: It's back there – back there. 

[Laughter]

Stall for a few minutes while I get a gift. But the – I think the point about that statement begins with it's a tough city and we're proud of who we are. It's a place with a lot of energy, a lot of creativity, a lot of entrepreneurship. No one said it wasn't a tough place. And it also is a very democratic place in every sense of the word. People have strong views and they're going to fight for what I think is fair. So what I don't get is, we made an agreement with them, they chose New York City, we were kept keeping the agreement. Guess what? Some community activists wanted to see something else. They wanted changes or they had differences – that’s part of life. And instead of an actual dialog to try and resolve those issues, we get a call this morning saying we're taking our ball and we're going home. I've never seen anything like it. So, we are putting them in our past and we're moving forward.

Sanders: We’re moving forward – how about that for a Valentine's Day treat? 

[Laughter]

Well, Mayor, before we start talking – I know we want to talk about – you know, you've had – you just got reelected. 

Mayor: Yes. 

Sanders: Recently – claps for re-election. 

[Applause]

Mayor: We love re-election. 

Sanders: We love re-election, okay, for some people. So I want to talk about all, you know, the success that you've had as Mayor, some things that you've learned, what are you taking into this next chapter in your administration. But first, I have to ask you, are you running for president?

Mayor: I have not ruled it out. 

Sanders: You have not ruled it out. 

Mayor: I have not ruled it out.

Sanders: What would push you to make a decision?

Mayor: Now, you wouldn't want me to deal in hypotheticals, now, would you? 

[Laughter]

Sander: The press secretary in me likes your original statement.

Mayor: Symone, we are at Harvard University, they would not want us to deal in hypotheticals here. 

Sanders: Of course not, of course not.

Mayor: The bottom line is, I have a desire to go out and talk about real specific changes that we're making in New York City that are an indicator of where we all need to go. And I don't mean that with any hubris, because every city is experimenting and trying to get it right. So, for example, in my recent State of the City speech, I said we're going to guarantee health care for all New Yorkers. We are not going to wait on single-payer. We believe in it. I believe in it. I believe in Medicare for All, but we can't wait. People need health care now. So, the City's going to take upon itself and guarantee health care for everyone, including undocumented New Yorkers. They deserve it, they need it, and they're part of our community.

[Applause]

And I also said we're going to do something – this scares me when I even tell you this fact –

Sanders: Uh-oh – lean in.

Mayor: Lean in – every industrialized country in the world believes that human beings need some time off, that people need some time for their families, for self-care. And there's only one country that guarantees nothing. And so, since we live in the United States of America, in New York City we're going to pass a lot of guarantees every working person two weeks of paid vacation. 

Sanders: Wow. 

Mayor: So they can take care of themselves and their families, and actually regroup and have a life.

Sanders: You all can slap for that, I heard some claps. 

[Applause]

I mean, I think it's important. I mean, I think these are the conversations that we're having right now are in fact conversations I believe folks are having across in communities across the country. 

Mayor: That’s right. 

Sanders: So we'll wait – we’ll wait on your presidential announcement.

Mayor: You’ll wait? Thank you, I appreciate your patience. 

Sanders: We’ll circle back. 

These questions tonight – I want to say thank you to the students of the IOP. They helped compile some of the questions we're gonna ask you. But I want to start off actually with maybe a more sensitive question. I think – I'd like to know, and some people in the room would like to know – what have you learned since the death of Eric Garner? And concurrently, if Erica Garner, the daughter of Eric Garner, was sitting here today – you know, as folks know Erica Garner was a very outspoken critic of yours – 

Mayor: Yes.

Sanders: Is there anything you want to say to her?

Mayor: I did not know Erica Garner. I do know Eric Garner's mom, Gwen Carr, and I've talked to her many times. And what I would say is, your son should not have died. It was wrong by every measure. And there is not closure – and that is wrong to. And I'll tell you what I think of our Justice Department in a moment – and unfortunately across two different administrations. But the other thing I would say is, he died and I wish deeply he was still here, but the world changed after his death. It really changed people's understanding. And so our goal now is to never let this happen again, which is why we have re-trained the entire police force. I mean, every single officer has been retrained in de-escalation. Every single officer is getting implicit bias training. The number of – I’ll give you an example, gun discharges in New York City last year – 36,000 officers, 8.6 million people, 365 days – there were only 17 adversarial gun discharges in all of 2018, because we're constantly re-training officers do the least that can be done safely to address the situation. So things have changed very, very meaningfully. But to the point about the Justice Department, I have no explanation for you. However, two administrations, to this very hour, the Justice Department has not decided that it will or will not pursue the case. It's almost five years. It makes no sense. 

Sanders: Makes no sense.

So what – I mean in terms of – I hear that there are institutional changes that that happened in terms of training, which I think is very important. I don't think we talk enough about the training of police officers when we talk about police accountability and police community relations. But what do you think the City of New York has learned? Do you think folks have learned since the death of Eric Garner?

Mayor: I think it was an extraordinarily searing, personal reality for all New Yorkers. And you know, after it, when originally the District Attorney and the grand jury in Staten Island did bring charges, it was a very painful night in our city. And I spoke that night, trying to tell New Yorkers that the City at least understood the world had to change. And I talked about my son, I talked about my son because to the eyes of anyone – he is a multiracial child – but anyone who looked at him would say he is a young man of African descent. And my wife and I had to teach him from literally about the age of 11 that he had to comport himself in a very particular way if he ever had an interaction with police. And I made very clear, this was not a statement of any disrespect towards our officers who protect us every day, and the vast majority of whom do it exactly the right way, it was a statement of reality. It was a statement of American reality. So when I talked about that, I was trying to let New Yorkers know we get it, that something must change, that we can't think this is an acceptable state of affairs. And particularly for folks in African-American community, I thought it was very important to send a message, because I know people were in such pain, that this would be a watershed moment. We wish it had never happened, but it would be a watershed moment and it would be a different and more fair city, going forward. That's what we're trying to achieve.

Sanders: I felt like that night you had an uncomfortable conversation for all of New York to see and, frankly, America. And I think, oftentimes we are much better if we have these uncomfortable conversations that lead toward action.

Mayor: That’s right. And I have to say, some of the unions involved in the police department there – each one's different – but some tried to suggest it was negative and disrespectful. And I said, how can something be disrespectful if it's parents trying to protect their children? And it's an American reality that tens of millions of Americans have been a part of that conversation – either hearing it as a child or giving it as a parent or a guardian. Well, how can we deny that's happening? How can we act like that's not a part of our national experience? It's not disrespect, it's reality. But if we could surface all that, it might be part of how we change.

Sanders: It might be proud of how we change – baby steps. And so you think the discourse has in fact changed over the course of your mayorship when it comes to police accountability, when it comes just to the conversation about policing communities? Because I know you – you talked about – you got it from the police unions, but you also got it from the activists. You were criticized from all sides. And I think there were valid conversations to be had on each side of the argument. And so do you think – how do you think the discourse has changed?

Mayor: I think it's a very different city. Today, in New York City, we have a very different kind of policing and we set out to do it purposefully. It's called neighborhood policing and the entire concept is to develop relationships between police and community – very humanly, like, right down to people knowing each other's first names, saying good morning to each other. We have a big focus now on officers working in a small part of a neighborhood and then staying there long-term and developing relationships. And I can't tell you how many people have told me, both officers and community residents, how different it is to have a human being. So I'll tell you a vignette – that one of those moments where you think, wow, something's really breaking through – I came down from a police graduation ceremony at Madison Square Garden, I went down into the subway to go to my next meeting, and there was an officer down there. And I just engaged him – I said, how's it going? What's up? And I will tell you that, I didn't know him, I didn't know what to make of him. So, I asked him a few questions. He had been five years on the force. He lived in Long Island – strong looking guy, young man, happened to be Caucasian, and I didn't know what his politics were, and he just offhandedly said things have changed a lot around here. And I didn't know if he was saying it with edge or with approval. So I said, well, what do you mean? He said, well, people are talking to us a lot more. I said, okay, well that's great. Why? He said, people will talk to you if they're not afraid of you.

Sanders: Well, there you go. Baby steps, ladies and gentlemen. I think that’s amazing. 

Mayor: Amen.

Sanders: Okay, so let's talk a little bit – little bit more about New York City. So, New York is renowned as one of the most diverse cities in the world, as well as one of the most populated. I just came from New York earlier today. Can we talk about doing something about LaGuardia Airport? 

Mayor: Just for you.

[Laugher]

Sanders: Just saying, okay? I literally can't walk from Terminal C to Terminal B, Mayor. It’s a problem. 

[Laughter]

So, amidst all of these differences, what has been your approach to celebrating diversity and each individual's background, culture? And also, what have been some challenges in doing that?

Mayor: Look, it's a challenge because all of the communities are trying to move ahead and sometimes people feel there's not enough for everyone, right? For example, we have these very impressive high schools and there's a group of particularly renowned public high schools, but increasingly they have ended up being un-diverse. And I came out with a policy and said, we cannot have the very best public high schools that are the places that a lot of our great leaders come from – Stuyvesant High School is a great example – David Axelrod went there, Eric Holder went there – I mean literally the proving ground for great leaders, but it doesn't look like New York City. Last year's class was – I think it was three percent Latino and one percent African American.

Sanders: Definitely not New York City.

Mayor: Correct. And I said, that's not acceptable. So I said, let's borrow model that Texas has – the University of Texas system where they take young people from every high school in Texas, the highest achieving in each high school across all demographics, all regions. I said, let's do some variation on that in New York City. Kids from all different middle schools get to come to these great high schools and they will be our future leaders and it'll be academically rigorous, but it will be inclusive. Of course, that started a massive debate, and some people felt they would lose in the equation. There was one professor, I think she was at CUNY, who wrote a very powerful op-ed in the New York Times, and she happened to be Asian, and lot of the focal point of the energy and anger was coming from the Asian community, feeling like there might be some loss for their children. And I understood it. Folks who work so hard to get the best for their children, they felt they might be losing something. And the headline of the title of the op-ed was – the Mayor’s plan for the specialized high schools is not anti-Asian, it’s anti-racist – simple as that. So I think that it kind of epitomizes the challenge we face. It should not be about losers and winners. We have to create an inclusive society, but it also has to be one where people understand we actually have so much commonality. If there's something that unites us – and I believe this fundamentally – it is our economic reality. 

Sanders: Oh, absolutely. 

Mayor: We’re all – we’re all struggling to get by, except for the one percent. And that's something that I think actually gets to the bigger discussion across the country too, that you can relate to Asians, Latinos, African Americans, Native Americans, white working class – everybody, by making clear the immigrants are not your enemy. The immigrants did not create economic insecurity – the one percent did. It's a purposeful agenda for concentrating wealth and power. I think the more people understand that, the more we don't have this sense of like armed camps, community versus community, struggling over what small gains they have made. But we started to talk about, there's a lot out there – I have a very simple phrase I use – I said, there's plenty of money – there’s plenty of money in this country, it’s just in the wrong hands. And I think that is about helping people understand that we have a huge commonality. If we would recognize that commonality, we could actually change things.

Sanders: That's, I believe, the conversation folks should in fact be having. You know, for some people have – what's the saying – that equity feels like oppression, because they've never been forced to share in an equitable situation before. But I think about Dr. King in these moments and, you know, right before – you know, before Dr. King died, he was waging the Poor People's Campaign – 

Mayor: That’s right.

Sanders: – And talking about this exact idea of uniting folks, poor black people, poor Latinx folks, Asian American, Pacific Islander, native indigenous communities, around this issue of addressing economic inequality, economic equity. And so how can we have more intentional conversations, if you will, in communities – how are you making these – how are you having these conversations in New York? And then, how can we take this as truly a national conversation? How can we broaden this thing out? Because I do think that is the crux of it – an economic conversation – but that is not in a vacuum. 

Mayor: That’s right. 

Sanders: Because economics does not exist irrespective of race, irrespective of class, irrespective of education. All of these things are compounded in someone's economic situation. 

Mayor: I agree with that entirely. And to your point, I think, I often say, a lot of people out there in the – whatever – the public discourse, let's say, have desiccated Dr. King and tried to take the economic justice warrior out of him, forgotten about the Poor People's Campaign, and not recognizing –

Sanders: Oh yeah, Mike Pence was saying that was his best friend last week.

Mayor: Right, which is a – that really is someone who's tried to airbrush history in so many ways. But the – Dr. King – the Poor People's Campaign was a recognition of that commonality. By the way, Fred Hampton in Chicago was organizing poor white people from Appalachia who were living in Chicago and people of African descent in common cause, and he was killed in the middle of that struggle. This is something that has been an area of tremendous potential for decades and decades. But whenever there's momentum for it, one way or another, it's squashed. To your question, I would argue that what we've done in New York City is we've put the economic fairness issues up front. For example, one of the first things I did was – with the City Council – was we extended paid sick leave to half-a-million people didn't have it. That meant five days paid – 

Sanders: Paid sick leave is important.

Mayor: For a lot of people, if you don't have it, you are either going to work that way so that day sick, you’re leaving your sick child home, or you're giving up a day's pay – and for a lot of people, they don't have a day's pay to give up. So, five days guaranteed every year – that was across all demographics, people who didn't have it. I told you about the proposal we just put forward on two weeks paid vacation. That is millennials, that's older workers, that’s people of every background – half-a-million, again, people in New York don't have paid vacation. When we did Pre-K for All – this was really important – I said every family deserved pre-K for their child for free. That was a statement of educational aspiration, but it was also an extraordinary lifting of a burden because in New York City, if you have to pay for early child education, it was $10,000 a year, $15,000 a year and for a swath of the city across every ethnic background, if you were poor, if you are working class, if you're middle class, you didn't have 10 or $15,000 per child per year. And so we had tremendous commonality of support for that idea and people shoulder to shoulder fighting for it. There is a lot more to do to break down the barriers that you indicated, but I will tell you when progressive's come forward with ideas that everyone feels and they can touch, they can really experience it is the beginning of a different kind of change because it's personal. It's not something you're reading a book or hearing a speech. It's personal. If progressives are giving you and your child pre-K for free, you're going to feel something different about the role of government, about the progressive vision. You're not going to feel that tension towards your neighbor or another ethnic group if your needs are being satisfied while their needs are being satisfied, then there is no us and them. That's a vision I think we have to pursue.

Sanders: What do you say to folks that say, oh, these are handouts?

Mayor: It's ridiculous. These are investments in the most foundational sense. Look, here's what's wrong in this country when it comes to education and this is the norm unfortunately. It's pretty well established that kids zero to five, that's the, that's the found intellectual growth era. What did the American education system decide to do as a norm? Start education at six. I mean there's a lot –

Sanders: That makes sense.

Mayor: Right, there's a lot of places in this country, there's no pre-K. There's either no kindergarten or half day kindergarten. The first time you are guaranteed a full day of public education is first grade even in New York State. So think about how backward that is. So what we said in New York City is we're actually going to flip the script. We're going to provide full day pre-K for every child, literally every four-year-old for free. And we saw immediately the seismic impact it was making in terms of kids' intellectual capacity being unleashed and what it was going to mean going forward.

We're now on the way to doing the same for three-year-olds. This coming September 2020, actually we'll have 20,000 three-year-olds who get free early childhood education full day and eventually we are going to make that a universal right. And what teachers will tell you is the kids who get that are able to move so much more quickly. And what so many research studies have shown is you want to avoid incarceration, you want to avoid dropout, kids dropping out, you want to avoid homelessness, you name it, give kids an education when it can actually have the fullest effect and also the amazing socialization that occurs and the hope it engenders. I will tell you one other vignette because I think it speaks to this. I was in the South Bronx a few years ago. We were doing a gun buyback program and we were going around door to door in public housing, giving people the leaflets and say if there's anybody you know who's ready to turn over a weapon that we’ll buy it back, no questions asked and it's all this – we're doing this door to door and I come out of this a housing development and a young man walks up to me, maybe 20, 25 years old and he's just this huge, strongly built guy. And he says, I want to talk to you. And I said, okay. He says, I need to tell you up front I'm formerly incarcerated. And he said, I was in a gang. I went on the wrong path. I've turned my life around. I'm working with young people now. And I said, well, I really appreciate you telling me, I appreciate what you've achieved. And he said, but here's why I wanted to stop you. He said, these kids are going to be able to do great things if they have hope. They said for so many kids in this community, they are sent a message that they don't have value. They don't have value. And when you get that message too often, you stop having hope. And if you are not valued by your society or by your school, you're going to look someplace else. And then a gang actually looks kind of logical cause some place someone will accept you and give you a sense of belonging. And his point was, if we don't invest in these young people, we should not be surprised what we get.

So my view of 3-K and pre-K is it is communicating to families and to kids consciously, subconsciously, we value you because we're going to put a lot of resources into you because you are the great potential of our future as a city, as a country, we value you. When you tell people you value them, their entire view of the world changes. So it's not a giveaway, it's a foundational investment in the kind of society we should have.

Sanders: Foundational investment – someone needs to take that messaging and run with it.

Mayor: Well you being an expert – I will. I'm inspired. I'm going to talk about it more often.

Sanders: No it is – you do it. You should talk about this more often. Look, I am a firm believer. I talk about this – we talked about it when I was here at the IOP. I'm a [inaudible] my class, shout out to everybody that knows about the Democratic Party apparatus. But we talk about how that our conservative friends have been really great at framing the conversations that folks, that we are having in politics, in the world. And we on the left don't do a great job at framing the conversation. So we often end up having the conversation using the language of our conservative friends. But what you just said is it is an investment. Yes, absolutely.

Mayor: You know, my wife, Chirlane, likes to talk about – you cannot use the tools of the oppressor.

Sanders: Well, come on now, man.

[Laughter]

Mayor: So –

Sanders: You said it now.

Mayor: I'm sorry.

Sanders: I tried to dress it up, but okay.

Mayor: But let's be real. But no, you're exactly right. The conservative movement paints these very broad emotional pictures, and progressives and Democrats somehow think there's you know – oh, that's beneath us and we must be something more exalted. But you know what, that that's actually, I think, disrespectful of every-day people because every-day people want to hear our hearts. They want to hear that we care about them. It's not just some mission of self-gratification we're on, but we care about them. If we cannot speak a language that makes sense to them, if we're not talking about their lives, we're wasting our time and their time. And I think this is a tremendous problem, but I think it's a surmountable problem. I tell you, when you say to people, we understand your life, your life is – here's what working people are going through in this country. They are struggling to make ends meet. They're lives are more stressful than ever before, their hours or longer. How many people are working not one job that's long enough, but two jobs, etcetera?

It's difficult. It's not like the American dream of, you know, you're going to do your nine to five, you're going to go home, everything's stable, and next generation is going to be better. It's the reverse now. And people are hurting and they're feeling that. And they want to have that acknowledged and they want to know that status quo is not okay. The 2016 election, if you had to boil it down, you know a lot more than I do about the 2016 election.

Sanders: Don't get me started.

Mayor: If you had to boil it down, the party that was supposed to be the party of working people, to too many people's eyes, it was the party of the elite that had caused the problem to begin with. And it was the party of, you know, a kind of centrism that was closely associated with the status quo. That instead of a righteous indignation that we had a status quo that was broken, that working people are suffering and we were supposed to be their representatives and their tribunes and the warriors on their behalf – they could not identify that in our party and our candidate. So I don't think it's a logical, and I and it's not just, I think sometimes the stereotype, you know, the white working class in the Midwest.

Sanders: I was about to say I think people in the audience don’t – I know that you're also talking about black, brown, Asian Americans, Working people, in fact, by 2032, according to the Census Bureau data, will be majority people of color by 2032.

Mayor: It's going to be a majority minority country. But in Wisconsin, to take one example, members of the white working class who had been Democrats, many of whom voted for Barack Obama, could not identify their Democratic Party and what they were hearing. And they either stayed home or they voted for Trump, hoping that something might change in, there'd be disruption. I think a misguided hope, but I understand it. But African Americans in places like Milwaukee stayed home, Latinos staid home, young people stayed home. Bernie Sanders supporters who would have been willing to come out and vote if they heard change, didn't hear change. So I actually think there's more logic and fairness to this equation. I don't, you know, wring my hands and say, oh, we were robbed. No, we didn't do our job. And if you go talk to –  there’s one other thing that I really strikes me is another thing is people know if you're talking to him or not and what happened I think over the years of Democratic Party was whole swaths of the United States of America were just ceded like it didn't matter anymore. Like oh that's like collateral damage. If you are not coming into every community and talking about what matters, talking about their lives and saying we care and we want to make things different, we want to change things. We're here to talk to you. We don't care if this is a Republican district or Democratic district, we're here to talk to you because it matters. You matter. If you just abandoned the ground, then you're absolutely confirming the people that you don't care about them and that you're not on their side. If you were, if you cared about them, if you related to them, you would show up.

Sanders: You show up whether you thought I liked you or not. Come to the community. Okay, we're going to take some questions in the second. Mayor, so I got to New York regularly. Okay. We'll have to tell you, I do not take the subway because sometimes it's reliable.

Mayor: This just in Symone.

Sanders: Okay, like what is going on? I got down there the other day and I was like, see, this is why I don’t get on the subway. So if you had a magic wand, okay –

Mayor: I'm ready.

Sanders: What would you do to fix the subways?

Mayor: A millionaire's tax.

Sanders: Come on now. What does that mean? A millionaire’s tax, talk to me about that.

Mayor: I’m going to tell you it and I want to put it in a quick frame because there's this whole raging debate in New York right now about, oh, don't scare away the millionaires, which I think is the most ridiculous –

Sanders: To be clear, they are not going anywhere.

Mayor: Thank you. So, one – what's the millionaire’s tax? It's a tax on New York City millionaires and billionaires that will not be onerous to them, but that will allow everyone else to get all around, including to go to the jobs at the millionaires’ and billionaires’ businesses and have our subway system work again, which is an interest of the whole region. And I swear what I'm getting now all the time is how dare you, you will scare them off. You'll kill the golden goose. Now, I said, first of all this is a country where the one percent has increasingly taken all the wealth and power – working people work harder and harder and harder to get very little back for that hard work, almost no economic advancement, one percent more wealth, more power all the time.

And they have created a set of policies that made that happen. Most of those were tax laws that are favorable and they were doing just great. And then they passed another law a year plus ago, the biggest giveaway to the wealthy and corporations in our history. So then I hear, well, but wait a minute. Some states, you know, state and local taxes are no longer deductible and therefore the millionaires and billionaires are suffering. I said, you forgot the fact that that –

Sanders: Millionaires and billionaires are suffering.

Mayor: Oh yes, that’s the narrative. I said you forgot that fact that yes, they didn't get to deduct a state and local taxes, but they got a lower tax rate overall from the federal government. They're doing fine. In fact, in New York, our estimate is most millionaires and billionaires net gained in that equation from the Trump tax bill. So my point in all that is why do we keep suggesting we cannot change? And if we dare to change, you know, they will prove to us there might and their power and they will all move to Tampa, Florida. And, and my view is no, they're not going to for a variety of reasons. But if we're so scared to create a fair tax rate, then we're going to be stuck in a very unequal, a very dangerous situation. Social fabric in this country is starting to fray. And I'm amazed by the way that more people in the elite don't see the danger they're creating for themselves. Social fabric is starting to fray. This level of inequality is unsustainable. If you want to know what might actually work, I would love to go. You have a magic wand again, I'd go collect from the afterlife Dwight d Eisenhower, I bring them back and we put another chair here and I say General Eisenhower when you were President of the United States as a Republican, what was your tax rate? The highest marginal tax rate, then blows by anything that progressive's today are talking about. It was a higher tax rate on the wealthy during the 50’s than even what the most audacious voices today are saying. And there was in the relative scheme of things, relative income equality, there was a sense of social mobility. There was a sense that the next generation would do better. There was investment in science and transportation and universities and the country was actually doing pretty nicely until the Reagan Revolution and Newt Gingrich and all of the very clever, purposeful things that concentrated power in the hands of one percent. And by the way, Republicans led that, but Democrats too often we're complicit as well, which gets us back to why too many of our people cannot recognize us.

Sanders: Come through, Mayor de Blasio.

[Applause]

Sanders: So my last question then we're going to go to Q and A – so there are mics in the room. So if you have a question, we have two mics down here. We have two mics up there. Please line up at the microphones and then we'll go to questions in the second. Last question I want to ask is about Public Advocate. Okay. New York is about to have its election for its fifth Public Advocate, and I do believe you were the third person to hold that role?

Mayor: Indeed.

Sanders: You're the third person and you helped shape a lot of, you know, what the Public Advocate role really is. So, what do you see as the future of the role and what do you think the next advocate should prioritize?

Mayor: I think it's a role that has to be a voice of the people – forcing government to recognize what's really happening on the ground. When you do that right, it can be a very powerful role. I'll give you a very simple, quick example. We had children with special needs and their parents were saying all over the city, we're trying to get help for our kids. They need special services. And the City of New York keeps finding a way to not give it to them just to say money. Our school system would literally just reject whatever parents needed. And say well if you want to challenge us, you have to go to court. We did a whole report when I was Public Advocate saying this is just inhumane. And bluntly, it was a kind of a game to save money. I'm proud to say now as Mayor, we've reversed that policy and we're giving parents what they need for their kids. But that's the kind of thing that needed to be brought out in the open and we needed to show that the government was not listening to people and not recognizing what was happening on the ground. So I hope the next to advocate really prioritizes things like that, particularly what's happening with children and families because they're struggling in the city.

Sanders: You know, there's like a hundred people running for public advocates.

Mayor: Yes.

Sanders: Much like a thousand people running for the Democratic nomination. So we'll see.

Mayor: We'll see.

Sanders: We’ll see how that thing shakes out. I won’t to ask you about your favorites. Let's go to the questions. I'm going to start right here. What's your name? What year are you and what is your question?

Question: Hi, my name is Sam. I'm a master of public policy student in my first year and also a native New Yorker.

Mayor: You’re okay with me.

Question: I’m sorry?

Mayor: I said you’re okay with me.

[Laughter]

Question: Thank you. So you've talked about the importance of righteous indignation with the status quo. You've also talked about Democrats being the party of the working class, but two major points of contention in the Amazon deal were one, provision of $3 billion in state and local tax or state and city tax credits to a company worth $1 trillion. And two, allowance of Amazon to skip processes for public review. So I was wondering if you could talk about those decisions, how they were made and how you view them now in retrospect?

Mayor: Well, Amazon's gone. So I'll answer the question, but I just want to say it's, in this case, it's academic. I am at Harvard though. I guess that's okay.

Sanders: It's always okay.

Mayor: It’s always okay. Here's the bottom line. So for progressives and governance, we have to think about what we need for our people. And the, my view is what a working class people need. They need jobs and they need a government that's going to be forceful about creating a quality and fairness and doing the kinds of things that actually take a lot of money to create a more just society. I said Pre-K For All, we're now creating 3-K For All. That's about a billion dollars a year to create a new grade of school if I had to round it off, but these are foundational investments in equality. When Amazon came along, we understood that for every dollar in incentives we would get $9 back in revenue to fund those very same kind of compassionate social programs that help us create a more equal society.

As to the process point, look, I'm elected by the people of the city, the Governor's elected by the people of the state and the nature of this particular project – there was no way we were going to come to an agreement if we had to say there would be a variety of public approvals with no end in sight and no guarantees what would happen. This was a practical move and I'm very open. I've said this very publicly, progressives have to be pragmatic without losing our souls or forgetting what we're here to do. But, but it's not an abstract exercise when you're serving people. So when I thought about 25,000 to 40,000 jobs, half of which we believe did not require a four year degree. So we wanted them to go to kids coming out of public housing to folks who came out of our public school, kids coming out of our public schools, students in our public university system. We saw that as strategically necessary to our future. But in the end, you know, we had a chance to do something very positive here – would have made a world of difference if Amazon took the attitude of, okay, we want to be a good neighbor. We're willing to give back more, but they weren't. I don't think there would have been the level of controversy if they had said, what would it take to show people that we actually want to be a part of this community and want to help it become a better place in a more clear fashion? I think that would've changed things quite a bit.

Question: Hi, my name's Ben Voltron, I’m a Harvard alum and a grad student. And I have since we are at Harvard I have kind of an imaginative, a more theoretical question for you.

Mayor: Alright.

Question: As you know, there's a lot of people that that say, live in Rhode Island or live in New Hampshire, and commute through gridlock to work in Cambridge. Or in New York City, you might live in Newark and commute to New York City –

Mayor: Or Pennsylvania.

Question: And live most and work, and live most of their day in New York City or Greenwich, Connecticut. So my question is, if we think about what it means to have a political identity in 21st century, people of course want to vote where they sleep, but should they have a more active political voice where they work and where they live for most of the day? Now, I'm not saying that they should vote twice the same place, but you clearly have an interest in let's say Newark where you might rest, but you also might have a political voice or a political interest in New York City where you spend most of your waking day. How do you, how do you balance that in a, in a modern 21st Century?

Mayor: That’s a great question. I think you're the first person that I've ever heard ask that question, I give you originality points.

[Laughter]

Look, I try – my first response to you is we're still trying to get that part right about people voting where they live.

Sanders: Well, I was about to say.

[Laughter]

Okay, come on now.

Mayor: I'm like, could we perfect that and then we will take – no, I really would say just part one, you know, in a country that has gone absolutely backwards on voting rights and participation, I'm very proud of the fact we just passed a referendum, to reduce money in politics, because it is one of the reasons people are not participating, and to increase the amount of public matching funds, so now truly a candidate for office, City Council member, mayor or whatever can run just with local donations. They are matched eight to one, 75 percent of the money it takes to run for office is public funds. You could never talk to a big donor and have all the money you need to run for office. The reason I say that in answer to your question is I think if – we need to reengage our people across the board, we need to show people that money goes out of politics. There are reasons to participate and engage again, and that your participation actually results in outcomes. And we need people to be voting in their home communities.

You're sort of, I think second stage, very fine question is, well, what about this more complex reality? I think you could start by acknowledging it. I think it's a good, a good message to me as someone who has, I think it's about 3 million people come in during the every workday to start to think about how we can start a dialogue, at least to hear the things that people are concerned about. I don't know really know how to bifurcate the vote, I really don't. But, but I do think if people were engaged, you know, at work, at home, you know, if their kids go to school, if everywhere you turned there was opportunities for real public engagement. It's kind of the medium is the message that people were engaged, the participation levels would shoot upward. And I think some of what you're talking about would be addressed. Thank you.

Sanders: Thank you.

Plug for, we need to restore the Voting Rights Act.

Mayor: Yes, that would be nice.

Sanders: That would be nice.

Mayor: We like voting rights.

Sanders: We like voting rights.

Mayor: It just sounds good.

Sanders: Access to the ballot box, for all Americans.

Mayor: You’re very traditionalist.

Sanders: You know, I’m – the founding fathers, they were thinking about me –

Mayor: They were.

Sanders: - when they wrote the Constitution.

Mayor: They had a picture of you in their mind?

Sanders: Or somewhere else. Too soon, too soon, yes.

Question: Hi, I'm Joshua [inaudible]; I'm a senior at the college. Two months ago another public figure who had not ruled out running for president, voiced to support for a version of Selective Service that would allow individuals to either serve in the military or sort of doing community service or help with public works. What is your position on Selective Service and does a version of it have a future in America?

Mayor: I think warmly of it. I don't have a formal policy position, but I think there's several things to be said for it. One is I think for a lot of people early on in their lives, they're looking for opportunity, they're looking for direction, they're looking for experience. And I also think there's objectively much more sense of social consciousness, much more idealism in the best sense of the word, much more sense of a shared destiny in recent years, in recent upcoming generations. So it taps into all that very nicely. I think the second point is the universality. So my dad served in the United States Army in World War II, and it's unfortunately a very painful story of what happened to him. But what he said, he came back from the war, missing half a leg, fought in the Battle of Okinawa, and he came back with what we now know as PTSD and suffered quite a bit, and our family suffered quite a bit. But the reason I mentioned it, is before he was attacked and, wounded, he said that for years in the military what was so striking to him was the comradery, but, but also the sense that all the divisions melted away. And he said he met people he never would have met from every region, from every background, economically and otherwise. And people felt a bond. And he was honest with me later in life that he never felt something like that again. And my mother said the same thing. She worked in the Office of War Information during World War II and she said she never felt the same sense of purpose and connection to others, and the rest of her working life. So I think a powerful argument for some kind of national services, it might make us more of a nation again. So again, I wish I had a formal position on paper for you, but I can tell you I think there's a lot to be said for it. Thank you.

Sanders: Yes, I’m coming up to the top, not new to this. Yes.

Mayor: Wow. Is that the – is that like the elite balcony seats?

[Laughter]

Sanders: This is – these - this is the top one-tenth of one percent.

Question: This is the only mic that batters. Hi, my name is [inaudible] I am, I'm a physician and a graduate student at the Public School of Health. So my question is two parts. The first one is we just finished a huge government shutdown. There were some helpful federal workers in New York and I was hoping you would speak specifically on what initiatives you personally supported and you personally were involved in? And then the second part is to also talk about – I love that you brought up the topic of PTSD and we've been dealing a lot and seeing the, the greater awareness of mental men, the need for mental health services across the nation and the world. Are there any specific initiatives that you believe, you know, with a population of about 8 million and with a lot of kids that are there and a huge immigrant population, that you could possibly, increase the access to mental health services? So the shutdown – you specifically, and mental health so –

Sanders: Start with the shutdown first.

Mayor: So shutdown – your question is on point because, I never in a million years thought I would have to help my own people survive their federal government. That's what it became. We literally had to say publicly, if you can't pay your mortgage because you're a federal worker or you're a contracted worker to work for the federal government, you can't pay your mortgage, call us, we will try and negotiate with your bank. If you can't pay your rent, you fear about to be evicted, we will, we will talk to your landlord, we will provide you a subsidy to [inaudible] you over. If you don't have enough food to eat, here are the food pantries that we will, you know, support to make sure you have food. It was as if the government was unleashing plagues on its own people and, and we had no choice but to step up. Now, I will say there's probably a bit of a parallel here that local governments in America every day are doing what the federal government used to where the state governments used to because there is no choice. And I think it's happening all over the world. But it was very painful and people felt a lot of fear and they had no idea [inaudible]. One thing we can say about President Trump is he gave you every confidence that the shutdown could go on for years. You know, there was no reason to believe he would come to his senses. So people are very fearful, thank God it ended then, we don't know what comes next now. On the question of PTSD and mental health, I mean, first of all, I just want to say that, you know, unfortunately I can say from the experience of my family and my wife, Chirlane’s family, you know, we've seen a lot of mental health challenges. In my dad's case, it was unquestionably because he went through some of the worst battles in human history and had to see so much death and so much loss of his friends and his comrades in arms. I don't know how a person comes back from that, and is the same person. And it manifested in very, very tough ways for him. He became an alcoholic, he chained smoked – just he was not the same person. That got worse and worse over the years. And so that's one of several examples I can say from my family and my wife, Chirlane has been very open about the experience in her family. And the fact is one in five Americans, one in five Americans suffers from some kind of mental health illness at any given point. And that means, you know, almost everyone in terms of family and friends is touched by it.

So my wife led an initiative that is growing every day in New York City, is called Thrive NYC. And it's revolutionary, because she acknowledged after she did a lot of study and talk to mental health providers and talk to everyday New Yorkers that there was no true consistent access to mental health services. It is the other half of health, you know, physical health. You break your leg, you know where to go, you know what to do, you're not stigmatized, mental health just as human, just as much of the human experience, just as pervasive, people are stigmatized. They don't know where to go for service, there's not enough services available. It's backwards, it's broken, and so Chirlane said, we will have the audacity in New York City to create a mental health system. And she created a set of initiatives to train more mental health providers to have them in communities that didn't have enough professionals, to make sure it was culturally competent, to make sure classrooms; every school had access to mental health professionals, so we identify with our kids where there were challenges. Here's something she learned in her research in America, the typical timeframe between the manifestation of a mental health challenge and it’s treatment is 10 years. And during that 10 years, the condition gets worse and worse. But the plus side, the good side of the reality is that all mental health conditions are in fact treatable. It's just a lot harder if you ignore them for the first decade. So, she did a lot of things. And I just want to say two more because they moved me very much. One she created a very simple methodology, called – it's a, it's actually a, 800 number. Its 8-8-8-N-Y-C-W-E-L-L, so you dial 1-8-8-8-N-Y-C-W-E-L-L, you get a trained counselor 24/7, any kind of mental health problems, substance abuse, opioid, anything. They not only talk you through help, you figure out what to do, but then they get on the phone with the person who will make your next appointment and they’re literally on the phone, if you need a therapy, if you need, a drug counseling, whatever it is, they literally set it up while you're on the phone. So it's revolutionizing how we get care to people.

The other thing that she has done is this amazing community outreach approach and organizing approach. And she's doing it with the business community, she's doing through school, she's doing it through sororities and fraternities. One very powerful initiative is Sister Thrive – Sisters Thrive and Sisters Thrive is with African American sororities, which have an incredible reach in the community and they're now promoting mental health services in common cause. She's doing things called weekends of faith in every, in every faith tradition. We had, this last time in New York City, 2,500 houses of worship in a single weekend from the pulpit talking about mental health with the purpose of the clergy members saying it is something that should not be stigmatized. You should come forward for help. Here's how you get it. And, and co-creating the commonality of experience. So this is, I'm sorry to go on so deeply here, but this is how you change things, we say it’s a broken status quo. We're going to create a set of new approaches, but we also have to go to the people with them. We have to go people where they are and show them that they can get the support, and that the stigma will not be accepted.

Sanders: I believe in mental health professionals. The professional cuts my hair, the professional does my nails. Why don't we have professionals for our mental health?

Mayor: Well said.

Sanders: Okay. I go to my therapist on a regular basis, but now I might be calling 8-8-8-N-Y-C-W-E-L-L.

Mayor: Very good.

Sanders: Cut my bill down.

Mayor: That's right.

Sanders: Economic inequality, we’ll take a couple more questions, I’ll go right up here then we'll come back down here. Yes sir?

Question: Hi, thanks for being here. My name is Cory [inaudible]. I'm [inaudible]. I'm originally from New Zealand and I've been at the school for a year and a half and I've never actually asked a question in the forum before, so I thought I'd give it a go.

Mayor: You’re like, long time listener, first time caller. [Inaudible]

Sanders: Welcome.

Question: Thank you. So, a number of candidates are enthusiastically jumping into the Democratic primary race, traveling to Iowa and New Hampshire, and a bunch of places, getting their face in front of people who ultimately make the decision about who the president will be. And it seems to me that, if you really believe that you were the person that can take on Donald Trump in a general election to really help Americans tackle the big problems that are facing this country and to be the President of the United States, ultimately, that you would have already bring in one of those people to throw your hat in the ring and get in there. So given that you haven't done that, why am I wrong in thinking that maybe in your heart of hearts you don't really believe that you can beat the president?

Sanders: Well, that's it. I'd like to note, that's what the streets would call shade. And I'm not going to let you be shaded up here on the stage Mayor, but I do think to frame it better, if I can put my communications hat on it. I do think there are people that are wondering why are folks waiting. And I'm somebody that believes that there are a number of people that have the, the luxury, in fact, I'm waiting to get, I mean, you got a little name recognition. Well, just a little bit, so I think, but I mean the question is why wait? The question is why wait, if you, if you think you might want to be president, if you think you could do it, why wait? That was a little less shade.

Mayor: That was nice. Thank you for showing our New Zealander cousin, some manners.

[Laughter]

Sanders: Good ol’ Nebraska values, I’ve got good Midwestern values.

Mayor: But I called him a cousin, so no, look –

Sanders: We family.

Mayor: I would say this to you, I think first of all, do not underestimate in anything where people are involved in public life, it's an exceedingly a personal decision on how to proceed. It's personal in terms of your family. It's personal in terms of feeling if you have the right moment for what you want to do, etc. But I would also say that I think there's a strange obsession right now in some of the debate and some of the coverage with, you know, everything must happen at a certain time. And I don't think that's the way the world works, I really don't. What we are seeing in these last weeks is not the norm we saw in previous years. And, I would just caution that there's more than one way to do things. Now I'd say to your challenge, and I accept it, I think it's obviously a very fair question.

So a reporter asked me on a Tuesday, I think it was, that said, well, you have a very demanding job as Mayor of New York City. Some, you know, you all may know, there's a sort of phrase out there for last few decades, second toughest job in America. It's like a phrase to recognize the particular reality of New York. And so the reporter said, you know, you have a very demanding job and it would be hard to go and campaign and therefore, don't you think, the race for president should be left to others? And I said, well, are you saying that people who should run for president should be people who have a lot of time on their hands? And are you saying that you don't want a folks who have demanding jobs and have had to achieve a lot and had to run big operations to run for president?

So I think it is fair to say that anyone who in any way, shape or form considers it has to have confidence. They should not consider it, shouldn't even consider it if they don't think they could do the job, and they don't think that they could make a foundational contribution to the country. I think anyone who’s even letting it cross their mind and doesn't believe they could do it should just stop playing games. But I would not mistake the fact that – I would say this about a lot of good people who are out there very openly saying, they're considering, I don't, I don't think ill of them because they are going through a process to make a decision on something, so momentous. There’s probably nothing as challenging as it. In the meantime, I'll tell you though, the kind of dialogue we're having here, I mean it matters deeply regardless of the one Office of the President. It’s something Bernie Sanders used to say, and I thought it was a very powerful point. You can elect a president, that's a piece of the equation, but we also have to organize people at the grassroots for change or the president will not be able to achieve a whole hell of a lot. We also need to keep making change at the local level. And so what I'm going around the country talking to people about at this point is that we are proving in New York City there's a very different way of doing things and we are basically cutting ourselves free from the limitations of the past.  I mentioned a different approach to mental health. We have a different approach to policing ware doing; we have Pre-K for All, we're going to soon have the same for three year olds. These are things that were not supposed to be possible. We're giving everyone two weeks of paid vacation, we're, we're going to have healthcare for every New Yorker. We're showing there's a different model, it’s progressive, it's inclusive, it's respectful. And we're going to be doing that regardless of all the other things happening. And we need everyone else around the country to do it. Another way to make changes, if everyone at the local level makes these changes, then it doesn't matter if they pass a bill in Washington, the change is already accomplished, and that's part of my mission too.

Sanders: Mayor Bill de Blasio, ladies and gentlemen. Mayor of New York City, unfortunately, that is all the time we have. I am a very, I'm a stickler about sticking to the time. So I appreciate you all for coming tonight to the forum. Please give Mayor de Blasio a huge round of applause, okay; he handled that shade amazingly well.

[Applause]

Mayor: Kept cool.

Sanders: You got to always keep it cool, Mayor.

Mayor: I kept it cool.

Sanders: It's always a pleasure.

Mayor: Hey, hey, hey [inaudible] I'll see you outside.

[Inaudible]

Sanders: It's always a pleasure. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Mayor: Thank you, Symone.

Sanders: And we hope you come back soon.

Mayor: Everyone, Symone Sanders.

[Applause]

Sanders: Thank you.