Transcript: Mayor de Blasio Appears Live on WNYC's Brian Lehrer Show

August 18, 2016

Sarah Gonzalez: Good morning, it’s the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC. I’m Sarah Gonzalez, sitting in for Brian Lehrer. Donald Trump owed $30 million in taxes for casinos in New Jersey, then Chris Christie became Governor, plus, the most dangerous place in the world got a little safer; and Olympic commentators just can’t seem to stop comparing women Olympians to men – we’re talking about sexism at the Olympics. That’s all coming up, but we begin the show today with Mayor Bill de Blasio and the weekly Ask the Mayor feature. 

Listeners, our main focus for the Mayor today is new data on the IDNYC program. We’ll get to a couple of other topics too, but, if you have a question for the Mayor about the municipal ID that one in 10 New Yorkers now carry, give us a call – 212-433-WNYC – that’s 212-433-9692. Or you can tweet your question – use the hashtag #AskTheMayor and we’ll see it – that’s #AskTheMayor. 

Mr. Mayor, thanks for doing the segment with me and welcome back to WNYC.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Thank you, Sarah, and I’m glad you’re getting this chance to sit in this important chair. 

Gonzalez: Oh, thank you. Okay, so almost 900,000 New Yorkers got a municipal ID card since it was introduced about a year-and-a-half ago. And this card is really meant for people in New York City who need an ID card for identification purposes, undocumented immigrants. Your office has shared some of the data from a survey you’ve commissioned, and of the immigrants who got this ID, most say that it’s their primary source of ID, if not their only form of ID, right?

Mayor: That’s correct, and I want to just say at the outset that the reason it’s one in ten New Yorkers, which is beyond anything we could have imagined happening so quickly, is because it means a lot to a lot of different people – for all sorts of people who don’t have an ID that works for them, and this could be – you know, a lot of people in the City, for example, don’t drive, don’t have a driver’s license. People don’t tend to walk along with their passport if they’re an American citizen. A lot of people needed an ID that was really usable day-to-day. So, yes, it’s very helpful for undocumented folks, and that was one of the prime motivations – to show respect and embrace for almost half-a-million people who are our neighbors and happen to be undocumented. But we found it’s very, very valuable for a lot of other people too. A lot of people are now using this as their go-to ID and it’s had a big impact on people’s lives in a whole host of communities because it allows folks, for example, who previously couldn’t get a bank account, couldn’t sign a lease, couldn’t go visit their child in school because they didn’t have an ID to sign in with, didn’t have an ID if they happened to be stopped by a police officer. It’s changing a whole lot of things because now – you know, 800,000-900,000 people – that’s the size of a major city onto itself. Now, all these people have an ID that is respected and authorized all over New York City.

Gonzalez: And you mentioned banks – I know that most of the big banks have refused to accept the ID as a primary form of identification for opening accounts. Do you buy what they’ve expressed? They’ve expressed concerns about money laundering, regulation compliance. Do you buy that? And how disappointed are you that more banks aren’t on board?

Mayor: I don’t buy it and I am disappointed because the bottom line here should be what the federal regulators say and they’ve been abundantly clear that IDNYC is an absolutely appropriate form of identification for a bank account and banking transaction. There are 12 banks that accept it as a primary ID. There now are, as you mentioned, a number of banks that are accepting it as a secondary ID. We’re going to push them very hard across the board – big and small banks – to accept this because it’s the right thing to do. Look, we want to see a lot of folks who right now are “unbanked,” who don’t have bank accounts – you know, they go to check cashing places, they go to places where they get ripped off. They don’t have economic security in part because they don’t have a bank to go to. We’ve got to change that, so we’re going to be very firm with those banks that this is an absolutely appropriate ID, very secure – we worked it through with the NYPD in the creation of this ID to make sure it was secure – and there’s no reason they shouldn’t be taking it. 

Gonzalez: And the survey you commissioned also found that this ID gave immigrants sort of a sense of belonging to New York City. Can you tell us more about that?

Mayor: Absolutely. Imagine – and I can say this through the prism of what my grandparents went through when they came here from southern Italy – and I think so many generations of New Yorkers can relate to this – you come to a new country and, whether you are documented or undocumented, a lot of people feel it’s a tenuous situation. Certainly, undocumented people often live in fear, but even documented people don’t always feel that they’re embraced and supported. This is a pledge of, you know, belonging and as an indicator of how much New York appreciates and believes in our immigrants, and that’s part of what’s been the excitement of this. When we started this, Sarah, we thought 100,000 people would sign up in the first year. You know, it’s now been about a year-and-a-half and we’re pushing, as you said, almost 900,000 people. It’s because it is not only highly usable, it comes with a lot of benefits, it comes with obviously the free membership at the cultural institutions for the first year – and very, very valuable, as I said, in all of those kinds of transactions and daily situations that you need an ID for – but it also says New York belongs to you, New York embraces you, you are a New Yorker. There’s even some folks who have gotten it simply because they like the fact that it is a badge of honor as a New Yorker to have it, and it means something to people – it’s great to be an American, it’s great to be a lot of things, but, instead, I am a New Yorker – and that means so much to a lot of people. 

Gonzalez: Yeah, I have a lot of undocumented friends in California, and I remember when they got their version of this ID and how it made them feel. I want to go to a question – we have Bob, in Brooklyn. Bob, what is your question for the Mayor?

Question: Hello, Mr. Mayor.

Mayor: Hey, Bob.

Question: How are you? Okay, thank you. I’ve got just a couple of quick questions here. My cousin lives in Queens – now, I have a New York State non-driver’s ID, so I have valid ID – my cousin who lives in Queens says there’s many benefits. Number one – can you enumerate some of the benefits? And, also, here’s my main question – I live in the Marine Park area, and it’s my understanding that the only way I can get one of these New York City ID cards is I have to make an appointment at a City office in Coney Island. I just don’t have the time to do that. I mean, when you get a MetroCard, at least you’ve got the MetroCard [inaudible] is in various locations. Can you make it more accessible? Can you have more locations to get the card?

Mayor: Bob, there are a lot of locations for sure, and I certainly understand how busy people are and we want to make it as easy as possible. And to find out where you can go, you just have to call 3-1-1. There are 26 enrollment centers around the five boroughs. There’s a lot of opportunities, a lot of different choices. There also are centers that, you know – what are called pop-up centers that will be for a period of time in specific locations in neighborhoods, so, you know, that might be closer to you in some cases. But all you have to do is call 3-1-1. They can tell you what’s closest to you. They can help you work out a time that works for you. The benefit is outstanding because in addition to the fact that, you know, all these specific things you’ve got to do day-to-day – a bank account, a lease, you know, signing in if you visit a school, a hospital – all the things that require an ID, this lets you do. But, on top of it, for everyone who is a new ID holder, you get the first year’s membership at a whole host of cultural institutions for free. And it’s extraordinary – we’re up to 40 major cultural institutions in New York City, and, you know, some of the biggest and most impressive institutions in the city, and a lot of local cultural institutions around the five boroughs. All you’ve got to do is bring in your ID card, your IDNYC – I did this myself and I saw how quick and easy it was – bring in your IDNYC, they give you a one-year membership for free. So, what we’re seeing all over the City is people are able to go into places they never went before, maybe in part because they didn’t know if they belonged there, or they thought the cost might be a problem, and they’re getting a whole host of experiences they never had. And then a lot of them are choosing, going forward, to, you know, become members and actually invest in those institutions and pay for ongoing membership. So, it’s a win-win for everyone. 

Gonzalez: Okay. I think we have a question from – we have a user of IDNYC – Harry in Forest Hills, New York. What’s your question for the mayor?

Question: Sure. Yeah, I’ve been using the card for a while. Due to an illness, I lost my other forms of photo ID. I went down to Lower Manhattan to get a senior MTA pass and they did not accept the NYC ID for the reduced fare. Also, I have another issue with the reduced fare – that fare is also restricted to non-use during morning and evening hours, which makes it difficult to get to, let’s say, I have a medical appointment. But, going back to the NYC ID, you were speaking about banks accepting it – how come the MTA doesn’t accept it?

Mayor: Well, you know, Harry, this is the first I’m hearing a situation where they didn’t, and, what I’d like you to do is, please share your information with WNYC so we can follow up in this specific case and find out what happened. They certainly should accept it. Again, this is an ID that was vetted with federal banking regulators – they said it made sense, NYPD said it made sense, institutions all around the City are accepting it. So, we’ll certainly figure out why that happened and fix it. On the fare issue, I also want to see if we could look into that and help you with that. The MTA, of course, is run by the State of New York, but we have members on that board, and if we can fix that senior discount we’d certainly like to.

Question: Thank you.

Gonzalez: Alright, thank you, Harry, for your call. Mr. Mayor, one of the things that you wanted to guard against is this ID being seen as a piece of plastic – and sort of gives away that you’re an undocumented person. So, New Yorkers, as you’ve said, can get this card for a number of cultural perks like memberships to museums and performance venues. Do you know how many people got this card for the arts and culture benefits as opposed to people who just needed this as a primary ID?

Mayor: Well as you know the study just came out and has told us a lot, but one of the things we know – I don’t think we have perfect information – one of the things that we’ve certainly seen so far is a very, very substantial number of people – it might be the single biggest category of people – are documented immigrants who take advantage of this. So, they do have federal documentation, but they don’t have the kind of ID, for example like a driver’s license that’s usable in all the day-to-day. And they also – again, that feeling of belonging and being acknowledged means a lot. So, I think you’re exactly right. The goal here was to make it for everyone. We certainly have seen all kinds of people sign up including lots of people who are American citizens, but I think the single biggest category has been immigrants who are documented, but want the benefits and want to feel more of a sense of belonging.

Gonzalez: And we have Deana from the Upper East Side. Deana, what’s your question for the Mayor?

Question: Hi, it’s Deana how are you?

Gonzalez: I’m good, thanks.

Question: I am transgender and last summer I went to the center on 13th Street to get a non-drivers ID – you know, the cards you are giving out. I changed by name legally, but I have yet to change my Social Security name, and they acted as though I was a criminal, as though I was trying to pull one over on them. They were most discourteous; they made it very unpleasant for me. I had to go to Ben Kallos, my City Councilmember and they [inaudible] things over. I got my Social Security name changed to my new name. And I have yet to get an ID card because I found the experience so unpleasant. After Labor Day, I’m probably going to get a non-drivers ID – a State non-drivers ID because I have my birth certificate changed and all that, but I just want you to know that they treated me very badly and I wonder how many other – I do a television show, so that wasn’t smart of these people – how do they treat other transgender people if they treated me this way.

Mayor: Well, the issue to me – and thank you very much for reporting this to me. Not only was it not smart of them, it’s not right of them. It’s not what we want; it’s not what we believe in. And we wanted this card to be for everyone. In fact, at one of the key announcements that we had we talked about what it meant to transgender New Yorkers to have a card that would be based on the identity that they talk about, not someone else’s assumption, but their own identity. And that’s very, very important to this process. I’m very sorry you went through that. And again, I’d like you to share the details with WNYC, so we can get them because we don’t tolerate anything – any discourtesy to begin with, let alone discourtesy that violates one of our policies because we’re very, very clear about respecting transgender rights. So, I want to make sure you do get the ID and I want to make sure that whoever did that is properly re-instructed.

Gonzalez: And I will say, from the survey, we know that 58 percent of youth survey respondents and transgender said that – for 44 percent of them, they indicated that the primary reason for them getting this ID was so that they could have an ID that displays their gender.

Mayor: Correct, and it’s something – look, we, as you know, a few months back we took  a very strong stand in this City in the midst of this national debate – the horrible bathroom bill in North Carolina and everything else – we said in New York City a person goes to the bathroom that conforms to their identity as they see it and we in fact not only made that a matter of law; we further went and publicized it with subway ads, bus ads, everything to say this is a real priority for New York City and we’re not going to tolerate people being mistreated. So, again we need to hear calls like this one because we need to know if anybody who works for the City of New York hasn’t gotten the point yet and we need to get them on the right page.

Gonzalez: And Casey in Brooklyn, you have a question for the Mayor about what information might be attached to this card?

Question: Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I’m curious about the link between the cards themselves. We know that [inaudible] provide an ID is more than just presenting a plastic card. Those plastic cards are most often – and what’s almost important about that is the database that is attached to it. What kind of surveillance or categorizing or what’s the network attached to these cards? And I am curious about it specifically because I’m curious about these links between these ID cards and the potential for undocumented migrants to send [inaudible] home to their families, which is a huge flow of money [inaudible] organizations like Western Union, banks can help migrants send home money to the benefit of their families, for the benefit of their home country, but in order for all this to be facilitated it requires some amount of trust in [inaudible]. Undocumented migrants don’t have much reason to want to work with governments or institutions or people who are going to start keeping tabs on them.

Mayor: Yes, I understand that 100 percent, but I want to disagree in the context of New York City. I think you’re absolutely right that there is a very troubling history and a mixed message sent to almost 12 million people here in this country. They are a critical part of our communities and our economy and yet they have to live in fear. And of course there’s an [inaudible] here that at any given moment any interaction might lead to immigration authorities intervening in their lives. And so, with New York City we have established – and this has been true over many mayoral administrations – a clear message to our immigrant community, to folks who are undocumented that they can freely engage in New York City government whether its police, whether its social services, education and know their information will not be shared with the federal immigration authorities. Now, I will immediately say there are exceptional situations, as when people have committed very violent crimes, or acts of terror, and things like that, that are truly exceptional where there’s a different standard – and that’s a matter of local law – but if you’re talking about the vast, vast majority folks here who are undocumented – almost half-a-million folks who are our neighbors and very much a part of our communities. I think the word really has gotten out, and it’s particularly been true with NYPD. I think more and more there’s comfort and IDNYC has helped in this that if an immigrant has a problem and they need to go to a police officer their problem will be addressed without it having any other larger ramifications for their immigration status. And we are sending that message constantly as are so many of our allies in communities, nonprofit organizations and advocates and faith communities. I think it has been heard, but in terms of [inaudible] as you’re talking about, this is one of the ways you actually make it easier for people to get resources back to their families in their home countries without having to pay those [inaudible] fees if they can have a normal banking relationship with a bank and they finally have an ID that allows them to do that.

Gonzalez: Alright, AJ in Manhattan, what’s your question for the Mayor?

Question: Mr. Mayor I just wanted to say that I think the IDNYC program is an excellent program. I’m an American; I was born in the United States. I moved here from another state, Washington, D.C., and I lost all of my documents, my passport, my driver’s license; my Social Security card – everything – and the process to get that restarted was very long, it was painful, it was [inaudible]. I was able to get an IDNYC card, which was really important because [inaudible] deposited payroll check into my account. So, I use it as an American. I encourage all my family who are Americans to use the program as well because there are other side benefits beyond just the ID. So, to address the last caller’s point about database management – if a million Americans would join in with the program as well it would dilute any potential stigma attached to the IDNYC affiliated with just immigrants, but it should be for all Americans.

Gonzalez: Okay, thanks AJ, and I wanted to add, another one of the findings from the survey is that seniors are taking advantage of the cultural benefits that they can get with this card. 67 percent of seniors who got this card have activated their free memberships to museums and cultural institutions.

Mayor: Sarah, that’s right. That’s been a very clear trend. Also, it doubles as a library card, so that’s another important convenience and access that people have. There are prescription – very important – there are prescription discounts attached to IDNYC, important for seniors, important for a lot of folks. But one last point about what AJ said, people forget – I think – how arduous it can be to get an ID if you don’t have one or God forbid, as he experienced, if you lose one. This is a much easier path to getting an ID that you can use every day. And God forbid you lose one – you certainly want to have an IDNYC as a backup.

Gonzalez: But there are limits. I want to go to Devon in Manhattan. Devon, you’re on WNYC. What’s your question for the Mayor?

Question: Hi, so I’m a transgender teenager and my parents are divorced. My dad won’t let me legally change my name, but my mom wants to get me correct ID. And so I was wondering if I would be allowed to get an NY ID with my correct name and gender?

Gonzalez: As a minor?

Question: Yes, with only one parent’s permission.

Mayor: Devon, I want to say IDNYC is available to people under 18. I think the cut off is 15 years old, but I need to check that. But I don’t know the specific answer to the legal question because clearly there are standards we hold in terms of what kind of documentation we need. Again, this is a secure ID. We do need a certain level of documentation to authorize it. Again, if you’ll share your information with WNYC, we’ll follow up with you directly. Our enrollment folks will figure out what we can do to help get you an ID.

Question: Okay, thank you very much.

Mayor: Thank you.

Gonzalez: And Devon, I’m just curious – what would having an ID that matches your gender mean to you?

Question: Well, it would help me travel. I travel a lot because I go to boarding school. And so it would help a lot with traveling purposes because it’s very annoying and complicated when my ID doesn’t match what I look like. And it would also help in general if I ever need a discount and I wouldn’t have to be automatically outed.

Gonzalez: All right, Devon. Thank you so much for calling in. If you’re just joining us, this is the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I’m Sarah Gonzalez filling in for Brian Lehrer. And we’re doing our weekly Ask the Mayor segment with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio. Mr. Mayor, I wanted to get to a couple other questions not related to the municipal ID. I wanted to see if we know any more about the murders of the Ozone Park imam and his associate?

Mayor: Sarah, NYPD fundamentally believes – obviously there have been charges initiated against this individual – that they have the killer. And they have a lot of evidence, and he will be prosecuted effectively. But we still don’t know the motive. And I have to tell you – people are mystified. There’s been a lot of investigation done. A huge task force, in effect, was put together to find this individual, and there’s been a lot of follow-up since he was apprehended. And the motive still isn’t clear. We’re going – we’re very sensitive to the fact that so many people in the Muslim community of this city are deeply concerned at this moment. We want to get them an answer that is the truth and is the final answer. But we just don’t have it yet.

Gonzalez: I went to Ozone Park after the shooting happened and spoke to some of the Muslim community members there. And one of the main things that I heard from them was that they wanted to see more NYPD presence. They said we need more – we need the police to be here as much they are a day after the shooting. And I’m curious – where – how do you balance this need for – the desire that the Muslim community has in at least Ozone Park, Queens to have more of police presence with this past that the NYPD has of surveillance programs of the Muslim community?

Mayor: Well, it’s a very interesting question. And I think it certainly indicates we’ve made a lot of progress. Obviously, I ended – and Commissioner Bratton ended – the previous surveillance policy that existed under Ray Kelly. We thought it was not effective, and we thought it was alienating the very members of the Muslim community we needed to work with to keep everybody safe. So I think that was appreciated by members of the community, and other things we’ve done like the Eid holidays being recognized by our school system. I think there’s been a real improvement in the relationship between the City government and the Muslim community. And we want to deepen that. So I think it is interesting that now there is more energy around the idea of having more visible police presence and feeling comfortable with that. There’s also – I always say this – there’s 900 Muslim-American members of the NYPD. And I think that’s another important – important factor in the confidence that the community has in the police.

The answer I would say is this – we’re certainly – we’ve reinforced a number of Muslim community locations all over the city in the aftermath of this killing. And we take this moment very seriously. We know people are fearful. But at the same time, we have to – as with everything we do with policing – we have to base our actions on real and specific information. And we need to make sure that we’re consistent. So for example, if we see any ongoing threats directed at the community – any patterns, anything that we think is substantial – we’re going to reinforce those locations consistently. If we don’t see threats, then we’ll certainly, through our neighborhood policing program, work very closely with each mosque and each community center – 

Gonzalez: Okay. And also –

Mayor: – to keep it close to them.

Gonzalez: Okay. And also NYPD-related – Sunday night’s panic at JFK Airport seemed to indicate that for all the counterterrorism drills and training, there’s more to be done with the Port Authority Police and the NYPD about how to handle situations like this.

Mayor: That’s exactly right. And look – I think it’s clear we have to do better. And it is a little complicated because the Port Authority Police have jurisdiction at our airports, and they obviously are part of an organization. The Port Authority is controlled jointly by the State of New York and the State of New Jersey, so that makes it a little complicated. But, the good news in this was the minute the Port Authority called for backup from the NYPD, we were literally able to get hundreds of our counterterrorism officers, our Critical Response Command officers and Emergency Service Unit officers, to JFK very quickly – well-armed, well-trained people who were immediately available. That part worked, but what I know I’m not satisfied with, and I think New Yorkers are asking a very fair question on this one is – we need to make sure that the coordination between the two police forces is seamless; we need to make sure there’s a lot better information provided to people in the airport and to the general public much more quickly. And there have been drills and things done to prepare, but we have to do even more for a variety of scenarios.

Gonzalez: Okay. And I want to ask you just one last question about a recent City Council vote that may not bode well for your affordable housing plan. It’s the first private application of a program that you fought hard to get through City Council early this year – Mandatory Inclusionary Housing – that’s where developers can get zoning changes to build taller in exchange for including affordable housing units. But when it came down to it for City Council Member Ydanis Rodriguez – he came against a rezoning for his district, and then the full Council followed his lead. And this is a City Council that has been very supportive of your agenda. What’s happening here? Do you feel like you’re losing support for your affordable housing plan?

Mayor: No, I think the overall support has been outstanding. Obviously, we passed the most progressive affordable housing program in the entire country with Mandatory Inclusionary Housing – literally requiring developers to build affordable housing in a way they’ve never been required to do before. So we got a lot of support from the Council on that. This a very local situation, but I have to say I’m disappointed. I have great respect for Councilman Rodriguez – we work very closely together. But here’s the bottom line – now this community has lost the chance to have a building that would have been 50 percent affordable housing, which is an extraordinary win for the community. Because the City Council didn’t act on it – now you know what could happen? That same developer can turn around and just do luxury housing. So it makes no sense why this opportunity was lost. And I think, look, I think folks in the community – of course people are fearful of displacement; it’s very natural. But I don’t think they were well-informed by some of the loudest voices in the community. I think people were led down the wrong path. Because actually what could happen now is the worst of all worlds – just plain luxury housing, no affordable; instead of what would have been almost 70 affordable apartments that would have benefitted 70 families in the community. So this was a real lost opportunity. We’re going to see if we can go back and fix it. But I don’t think it’s larger referendum on our affordable housing plan. I think it was just a mistake locally and a lost opportunity locally.

Gonzalez: And I was at a rally in Inwood the night before the vote and residents there – they just really don’t seem to be onboard. They say that having any wealthy, or wealthier residents in their neighborhood is going to drive up costs of their rent and their groceries. There are a lot of Dominican small business owners in Inwood who are worried that they won’t be able to afford the rent for their businesses. Can you see this side of the argument?

Mayor: Of course.

Gonzalez: Do you think that maybe more outreach to the community could have resulted in a different vote?

Mayor: To some extent – yes. I absolutely understand the fears because so many people have been displaced and because gentrification is very much a double-edged sword. The fears are real, and that’s why we have the biggest affordable housing program in the history of New York City, which will be enough to reach a half-million people by the time it’s done. And that’s why we passed a law that would have forced the creation of affordable housing here. The fear is real, Sarah. The problem I have is the fear gets whipped up, and then people lose an opportunity to actually get affordable housing in their community. They don’t stop the luxury housing. That’s the irony here. The luxury housing now could happen with no affordability attached – the worst of all worlds. And I think the notion that there’s not going to be a changing economy and there’s not going to be gentrification – it’s just not real. I’ve tried to be very blunt with my fellow New Yorkers. Development is happening, gentrification is happening in a number of neighborhoods. I have my qualms about it too. But it’s happening for much bigger reasons – much bigger economic and social reasons. Our job as government is to intervene to the maximum extent possible within a free-market system and ensure that the people’s interests are protected. And that’s where we literally created a rule that private developers had to – they didn’t have a choice in the matter – they had to create affordable housing if they wanted to be able to build higher for example. That’s what the Mandatory Inclusionary does.

Gonzalez: All right, I think we’ll leave it –

Mayor: But you can’t make development go away just because a lot of people would like it to. It’s not going to go away.

Gonzalez: All right, I think we’ll leave it there. Mr. Mayor, thank you so much for joining me. And listeners, thank you for your calls. I am WNYC reporter Sarah Gonzalez sitting in for Brian Lehrer.